Emma Millington is owner of the agency Modular Digital, a UX design and build agency based in Bristol focused on charity websites and apps.

Emma discusses her focus on learning, relationships and building skills in charities as they build their digital products.

Transcript

Annie Legge 0:00

Hello, and welcome to the Tech for Good southwest Podcast. I'm Annie legge. And I'm going to be talking to one of the founders of the website and apps agency modular digital, based in Bristol. Emma Millington. Hello. Hi, Annie. Mo be great. If you could tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Emma Millington 0:19

Yes, of course. So morning, Sam. Yes. I'm Emma Millington. I'm I'm MD and Head of Customer Relations at modular. We're a small digital delivery team, and I guess on the our outputs are websites and apps but what we offer, beyond that is really more about seeking out long term relationships with clients, and becoming part of their team, and helping them with their digital strategy and deliveries internally. So yes, clients will come to us if they either want to launch a new product, like a website or app. Or conversely, they might have an existing website that's in need of some TLC. And then we'll bring that into our Modular environment, and then look after it and the team from there. And that's anything from sort of doing support maintenance updates, to longer term nurturing with additional content or features. And I think for lots of the charities that we work with having an iterative approach is really useful.

Annie Legge 1:27

Yeah, that's great. Thank you, Emma. And, you know, I know we've we've come across each other a lot through our work. And I know that you particularly focus on some charity sector clients, or at least those sort of clients that are definitely having social impact through the work that they do. I just wondered, like, what led you to that? And I guess what, what makes Modular Digital really focused on that sector as well at the moment.

Emma Millington 1:52

So thinking about Modular, I think one of our earliest projects was a probono website build for charity called the NACOA. They're the National Association of Children of Alcoholics. And they are still a client today. And I think what struck us about the guys, and probably very much, so the other charities that their values really reflected ours in how they operate, and what they care about.

Emma Millington 2:22

The passion and dedication you get from the teams, I always get a sense that more is going into their projects than just the technical requirements. And you're talking about social impact. So I think that's a huge part of it. Most of the guys we working with might be a small team doing really big things that are going to have huge impact and relevance, and lots of their projects and not like just a website, they're going to be an online service, which may need to take on board considerations like emotional design, or trauma informed design, depending on who they're helping. And so when we're working on their products, they're a lot more complex and the lens that you need to look through to approach it is much broader. And you know, they've got to fight so much harder, as well, just in terms of budgets and getting things done. But they're just so many good things about working with them that we just say we keep getting naturally gravitated back towards organisations who really care about what they're doing.

Annie Legge 3:25

Yeah, it sounds like when you were sort of introducing Modular as well, you obviously do those kind of like the website or the sort of application type projects, but then you then you stay involved, obviously, where you can, and I know that you've done you've done several projects based in Bristol, I think you worked with, was it the North Bristol Advice Centre? You've also done some work, I think with is it Voices and a couple of other organisations, it will be great just to, you know, I guess help us understand, you know, the impact that the work that you do, excuse me, will have had on on organisations like that, because they don't have huge budgets, they don't have a lot of capacity, but I guess were the other types of projects that you're doing, how it may have really sort of helped them in terms of their service delivery.

Emma Millington 4:12

So North Bristol Advice Centre is actually like a really great starting point. And the first piece of work we carried out for them was actually what we're going to call like a digital tool. They provide advice to people who are looking for help with debt and Financial Affairs. And they had an online form, I suppose that they wanted to create which would help direct people to the right services, but also gives them guidance along the way, the process can be quite complicated and difficult to achieve. So for us, we were tasked with helping them finalise, I guess the user centred journeys within that form. Thinking about the audiences using it, and then building it in something that was going to be sustainable, and wouldn't need to be redone in a few years. And I think this form is a really good example of where digital can make a massive impact. It was so successful in terms of funnelling enquiries, that the guy has had to turn it off for a bit. Because they didn't, you know, they also didn't want to be disappointing people and not being able to get back to them. So yeah, that's a really good starting point for those guys.

Annie Legge 5:34

I think that that really highlights some of the challenges that particularly the smaller charity focus organisations face when they're trying to do something quite significant that's going to change the way they work. I'd be interested to know how you, as a team, maybe have to work differently when you're supporting projects like the one that you've just been been sharing with us.

Emma Millington 5:56

Yeah. So I think some observations about charities, and I guess some of the differences, that the teams that we're working with, I think we see a higher frequency where the guys are part time or voluntary. So their resources are really strapped anyhow. And doing any digital project, if it's not your day to day, responsibility is quite a mean feat anyhow.

Emma Millington 6:21

I think being aware of budgets is another key thing, they are often trying to get things off the ground. And there may not be an internal budget, they may have been lucky and won a grant. But that's of a limited value. So when you're thinking about the solutions, you've got to take into account what can be delivered, and the best way and the easiest way. And then I guess when we're looking at presenting designs and concepts, charity structures are different, we'll have the small team who would normally liasing with directly throughout the project, but then they will have a board of trustees. And depending on the organisation, those trustees will have different levels of involvement. So taking into consideration the unique needs of each charity, sometimes the process is just a lot longer. So for example, if each design iteration is going to need trustees sign off, then we need to really think about when are the trustee meetings? How much longer do they need? How can we facilitate that and make that just easier for them for the team we're working with, and the trustees to capture that wider view. I think with budgets, it's not always just about getting the product built. It's about sustaining that long term. Quite often there'll be a grant to get something off the ground, but then there's no money left in the pot to run it. So I think we do come to a project thinking differently about how we're going to manage it, what considerations there are, and how we're going to support them longer term as well.

Annie Legge 8:06

Yeah, and I think this this funding is such a systemic problem. And your point around just firstly, your point around, working with the trustees, and making sure that you that you are designing an approach that allows the space and time for the organisation in their own rhythms and ways of working to actually be be part of that process and journey is really important. I think one of the things we've certainly learned is being able to go slower, where you can, and sort of, build in ways of working that allow people to quite quickly come up to speed and not feel left out of the process. But in terms of the project, you obviously the project that you shared was and many I think that you've worked on, the organization's often have already raised a grant or some funding to do the work is is that what you most often see that they've had to kind of, you know, always advocate for the work that needs to be done, and then go and find some funding from a relevant source to then be able to procure somebody like modular digital to support the project.

Emma Millington 9:13

I think certainly with smaller or maturing charities. I think once you get into much bigger national charities, they probably have different capabilities for putting budget aside. But definitely with the guys we've worked with, I would say 100% have had either sort of like government funding, National Lottery grants or other grants and funding that has allowed them to be able to start the project.

Annie Legge 9:46

It's so difficult, isn't it? And it's what we see all the time as well because, you know, the project that you shared as well the North Bristol Advice Centre was so enabling in terms of them being able to do more of what they do. And yet, there's just such an uphill battle to try and get the capacity but also the financial resources to actually do the work

Emma Millington 10:09

Very much so and I think when we're taking on a project, we're always trying to think of what we're going to be, you're talking about, you know, the differences and the different challenges for the guys. And so we'll be looking really deeply at when are people available understanding who's going to have to feed back what the budget is, because sometimes grants will have certain requirements to fulfil that. So they may have to, for example, deliver a project within a certain timeframe, or certain KPIs must then be collected after to prove the impact. And that's a lot of pressure on a team, to not just build the thing, but then also to having to constantly justify it.

Annie Legge 10:52

You know, if the projects can come about because the organization's been able to get a grant. And I think you mentioned it just just now earlier on that often you you obviously try to sort of stay in a relationship with with your clients and do some ongoing mentoring and support. How is that type of work typically funded then? Do the charities get like a follow on Grant? Because that's what we experienced, that kind of ongoing work, because it never stops digital, just, you know, just build something and then it stops. And the job's done. But then that that kind of maintenance, I guess, or the ongoing work needs to come out of there sort of core organisational overhead.

Emma Millington 11:39

Yes. So for us, I guess it's split into two parts, the ongoing maintenance and support, we've worked hard to pull together a package that is like super affordable, and super flexible. So we know that some of the guys only get pots of money at certain times. So that could be an annual payment, or it could be split across the year. And that cost will use just about keeping the website live and healthy and ticking over. So that like your phone, when they need the IRS updates, websites need the same. And sometimes they need a bit of extra help just to make sure they haven't affected the functioning of the product. So we keep that as minimal as possible, as affordable as possible. But that also then gives the teams a helpline and access to I guess a group of designers and developers that then if they want to carry out further development, that we can help them scope out what that looks like, what the impact and the benefit may be of carrying out that development, and then almost pulling together a proposal that they can then use to feed in to try and procure funding for it. So I'd say in most instances, the majority of the charities can cover the baseline of support and maintenance. But then if they want to add new functionality and iterate their platform, that's when they have to go back through that process to get money.

Annie Legge 13:05

Yeah, it's just it's constant, isn't it? And when, and there's so many demands on these organisations, particularly at the moment and through through obviously, the last couple of years, it's just a very stressful process, always trying to keep an eye out for where the money might be coming from.

Emma Millington 13:21

I think Digital's a new responsibility that possibly some people when they join in their role sort of three years ago, maybe just weren't aware of and websites have changed, and apps and tools have changed. And they are live and need to be fed regularly. It's not like the olden days where you just build the website, plonk the content on and walk away. They're dynamic tools. And that's not going to change. So I think there's also a piece of work to be done around mindset to help the charities understand what having a product means for them, but also definitely for the funders, and to get more awareness that this is really important that you can't just build a thing and leave it. It is going to need further funding for it to continue to give impact and be successful.

Annie Legge 14:10

And that brings me on to, I guess how we first met actually, Emma, because we first met when we were running Tech for Good Bath and Tech for Good Bristol were two separate community groups that used to kind of work quite closely together until we we merged a few years ago. And we met at an event in Bristol event because you were doing I think it was a sort of little learning session for charities around using CRMs I think if my mind remembers, and I think that's something that you I know from our conversations over the years, you're very passionate also about the sort of mentoring and the training and the learning aspect. And so I think that's something you know, obviously we're really passionate around through through Tech for Good is that something that you think needs a lot more support out there for charities particularly around, you know, learning how to manage digital, like you said, it's, it's the ongoing management. It's not just doing doing the project itself.

Emma Millington 15:11

Yeah, absolutely. I think, because I'm not techie, I think not coming from a digital background, I think as well, I understand the pain points. And I've been with Modular for seven years and I feel sometimes, like, I'm only just getting my head around some of the key things, Understanding the systems, how they're put together, and what you need to know, to make the most of it. So I think, again, there are different levels, there's an ownership level of understanding, there's a usage level of understanding, and then there's Wow, what else can we do? How else can we make this great, and there is so much potential, but because I think the sector sort of advanced so quickly, and obviously with COVID, that's pushed us into the digital sphere a lot more heavily. And we're not going to retract from that now that there's gaps around knowledge about how to build a digital roadmap, how to use a CMS how to budget and be aware of what those ongoing costs may be. And those are all things that we try and really furnish our clients with. Rather than just building the product, it's about helping them understand helping them upskill helping them internally know how to manage new projects and get the best out to them.

Annie Legge 16:33

We need to do more of that learning don't we! It would be just amazing to have a bit more of a way to provide ongoing support for organisations, you know, not just through the projects, but sort of afterwards as well.

Annie Legge 16:46

Emma you mentioned that actually, you don't come from a sort of digital or technology background. Obviously, you've been doing that for the last few years. Just really interested to know what led you to actually being involved in in Modular?

Emma Millington 17:02

Yes, it? No, it's mad. I mean, I was an ancient history student, many years ago, I had visions of being an academic and writing books about Greeks and Romans. But I think that the jobs that followed after uni, they all focused on customer relationships, and understanding people, and really learning what people need, and how to create good processes and offer amazing customer service in response to that. So the opportunity at Modular came for an MD and someone to really take on board, building their client relationships, I just really loved the impact that they were making. And I could see that there was real potential to embrace the heart of that, and help it grow.

Emma Millington 17:56

Again, sort of some of the earlier clients like NCOA, you could just see the passion of when those sorts of projects were talked about internally. And so over time, we have now I guess, really sort of considered charity needs in particular, and looked at how we can meet those needs, going back to things like you know, the affordable support, because we know they do face different challenges, but the impact and where we are now, we've got such amazing clients in our portfolio, that I'm, I just feel really proud to work with them. And for me, that means a lot, having those longer term partnerships that aren't just like the task in hand.

Annie Legge 18:46

Yeah, it's more than that, isn't it? Because it sounds like you're, you're able to constantly see the impact yourselves, I guess, help with that, with that journey as well. I think, you know, Tech for Good is very much at the heart of of what you do. It's actually you know, you are actually technically building websites, products, applications, really to support what the charities are doing. But I'd love to just get your point of view on what Tech for Good means. What does it mean to you?

Emma Millington 19:21

That is also a great question Annie. I mean, because when I actually think of Tech for Good, I think of you as the Tech for Good angel when we first met! But no, no beyond that for me Tech for Good really is not just about creating a static product that you think of like a website or app. It's about really crafting online services and building the best digital ecosystem to deliver the highest level of impact internally for the teams using those systems, for your organisations to help them meet their goals. And of course, for the people who are going to be using the products, looking for help or assistance. And really, I guess for us, it's helping people understand that ecosystem as well. Not just helping them to build it. But Tech for Good is really about the people behind the tech as well.

Annie Legge 20:24

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's so broad, isn't it, but it's just so interesting to understand people's different perspectives, and what it means. I mean, obviously, we were really passionate through this network of really trying to surface the great work of organisations like yourselves, but also the challenges that, you know our regional charities are facing day in day out trying to kind of wrap themselves around these, these sort of digital challenges and problems. Our real hope, by having a community here is that more people talk about it, more people think about actually, yes, I could make a difference, if I use my skills in this way, or to support these types of projects.

Annie Legge 21:07

If you, Emma ever had a magic wand, I'm giving you one. You could wave your magic wand for for, I guess, the Bristol Community, particularly because that's where you're based. What would your hopes be for the region, you know, based on the conversation we've been having today, and how difficult it is, is for charities, but also you know, the impact that we can have as a sort of technology sector if you like.

Emma Millington 21:32

So I think utopia in Bristol would be when more than the organization's were able to have more control of their digital destiny. And I guess that would then be supplied in a number of ways. So obviously, getting the funders to understand that digital is an ongoing thing that will need different types of funding and consideration that we have a hub where that knowledge, and upskilling is really easy to access and share. And that people reach out and use it but that it's not scary. And if someone has a digital project, that it's quite an exciting thing, rather than perhaps being a bit daunting or not sure how to approach it. But I think we could get there, I think we could help get to that point.

Annie Legge 22:24

I love your utopia, you just sort of designed a strategy for tech for good there! Our digital destiny, or at least for charities to have a sort of recognition, I think you said that digital is is ongoing, it needs different types of funding, it needs different ways of being able to access learning and support. I mean, we particularly often see very short term funding, or just to have a handful of days just to do a thing. Whereas you know, deeply as what we do. And also what you do Emma is also about that kind of longer term, capability building and learning and support, which can't be done, you know, just two or three days here and a couple of weeks, you know, there with different types of funding.

Annie Legge 23:10

So yeah, there's a lot to do. And I think the more that we can have these conversations and learn the impact of doing great, great support work, but also the challenges organisations are facing, particularly in this context. We could reach utopia Emma, and I'm confident we can do it.

Emma Millington 23:27

Absolutely. Because I think if we could help people understand where they are in their journey, help them see where they want to go. And how digital can help them, get there and deliver the best services. I think that is achievable. I think, especially like the work you guys do at Dot Project, it completely embodies that. But I think also perhaps, for the charities just invest in a little bit of time to just work out where they are, I think would be a really good valuable starting point as well, even if you don't do anything else at that point, starting to build the map and then there's lots of walks out there who can help you work out what the good road to take is where the rest stops are where the snacks are all along the way. But you need to have a map in the first place.

Annie Legge 24:16

Yeah, no, I love that. And that's what I would love to see as well just to take stock of the situation. And then actually sort of create those routes if you like to kind of have improvement.

Annie Legge 24:27

It's been so interesting to chat with you, Emma. I always love our chats because we always end up talking about this passion around learning but also the sort of relation and relational aspect of working in digital projects.

Annie Legge 24:42

I look forward to getting more charities supported and finding new ways funding for our Bristol utopia. So I love that. Thank you so much, Emma, we look forward to chatting to you again.

Emma Millington 24:52

Oh, my pleasure, Annie. Really great. Thank you so much for your time as well.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai