Summary

In this episode of the Tech4Good South West podcast, our host Alicia discuss the importance of technology in addressing societal challenges with Emily Franklin, Head of People at Kaluza. They explore Kaluza's mission to make net zero accessible to everyone, the significance of company culture and values in tech for good organisations, and effective hiring practices that align with these values. The conversation also delves into diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives, employee development, and the future direction of Kaluza as it expands globally.

Takeaways

• Tech4Good South West aims to amplify technology's positive impact.

• Kaluza’s mission focuses on making net zero accessible to all.

• Company culture is integral to achieving tech for impact objectives.

• Values should drive decision-making and everyday behavior.

• Hiring processes must assess alignment with company values.

• Diversity of thought is crucial in hiring practices.

• Kaluza is committed to diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives.

• Employee development and wellbeing are key focuses at Kaluza.

• Office presence should be purposeful and collaborative.

• Clear communication of culture and values is essential for success.

Sound Bites

• "Our mission is to amplify the positive impact of technology."

• "Kaluza is about making sure that net zero is within everyone's reach."

• "Culture is woven into everything that we do."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Tech4Good South West

01:28 Understanding Kaluza and Its Mission

05:43 The Role of Company Culture in Tech for Good

10:17 Defining and Instilling Core Values

13:00 Hiring for Culture and Values

15:12 Effective Hiring Practices at Kaluza

18:48 Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Initiatives

24:23 Employee Development and Wellbeing

30:33 Future Directions for Kaluza

31:59 Advice for Heads of People in Tech for Impact

Transcript

Good afternoon, everyone. We are currently on, I don't know what, 28 degrees today, end of July. By the time this comes live, hopefully everyone's enjoyed a really nice summer break. But yeah, we are back with the Tech through your self -rest podcast with me, Alisa. And today I am joined by Emily Franklin. Emily is the head of people at my very good friend at Kaluza.

We'll dig into exactly who Kaluza are and what Emily's goal is in a bit more detail. But yeah, I've worked with Kaluza for quite a while, so I was really excited to bring Emily onto the podcast. As head of people, we're going to be speaking about quite a different things and what that actually is, mainly around sort of hiring and expansion and what a really good culture and a text for good company looks like, because Kaluza was founded in Bristol. They are now a global company and founded off

the back of Ovo Energy, which I'm sure everyone in Bristol knows, separate companies now. And yeah, we're going to dig into a little bit more about what to do to do, who are, I think, the ultimate tech for good company, or tech for impact, tech for good, and doing some really cool things So, Emily, it be great to understand a little bit more about you and then also your role in a bit more detail and then also what Kaluza do. Of course. And thank you so much for having me. It's really lovely to chat to you. I feel very passionately about Tech for Good, but of course Kaluza and our mission, which I'll talk about in a few minutes. So my role as Head of People at Kaluza.

It's really broad, so I couldn't tell you everything because I'd here all day. But in a nutshell, my role is to make sure that we have the right people at Kaluza for us to be able to deliver our mission, that those people have the right tools and right experience, and that we reward them brilliantly for the work that they're doing here at Kaluza. So that could range from career development frameworks to how we pay people to anything to do with their personal development or some of my colleagues and my peers look after things like what benefits we offer and what our office looks like. So it's a really, really broad role and therefore touches loads of different points along the employee journey. So part of the reason that I love it is because it's really diverse and we get stuck into lots of different projects. But also I love being the enabler that helps everyone work to the best of their ability.

So that's my role. If I was to try and summarise Kaluza in a way that is the least complex way that I can. So as you described we were sort of incubated as an idea within OvoEnergy.

We are now a separate organisation and ultimately what Kaluza is about is making sure that net zero is within everyone's reach. So that's ultimately our mission. We do that in two ways. So we have a platform for energy retailers and what that provides is those energy suppliers like OVO and others to deliver market leading experiences.

 So it's about empowering the retailer to empower their customers with information, with tools, and ultimately, it helps simplify the tech estate, which then frees up investment. And then that ultimately can lead to innovation with low carbon solutions and the cycle goes on. So that's sort of bit one. And then bit two is our sort of flex management product, which is ultimately about managing supply and demand from the energy grid. So quite a complex organisation in terms of what we build and the market that we operate within. But it feels like a really exciting time to be working in this space and helping other organisations drive towards net zero.

That was an absolutely perfect overview. Not too complex. think a lot of people are going to get it, is cool. And something that we really need to speak about. I know that sort of, yeah, energy and climate change has blown up in the last few years. But I very much think that Kaluza is leading the way. In terms of, as I said, a lot of our listeners, well, the majority of them are in the Tech for Impact space and whether they are founders, whether they're similar to you, head of people, or they're just, just folks who are really interested and passionate about the space, maybe looking for work or yeah, just have, a huge interest in the, in the different topics and guests that we bring. But why, yeah, I was really excited about this conversation is because I think when it comes to hiring people and culture, it is different when you're working for a tech for impact company, like it is so mission driven.

Yeah, I'm really keen to dig into that. in terms of what role does your company's culture play in achieving sort of your tech for impact and objectives? That's a big topic. Culture touches so many things. It's about how you make decisions, how you work together, what tools you use, like the behaviours that you expect from everyone. So I'll try again, I'll try and keep it simple.

But ultimately our culture is woven into everything that we do. As you say, it determines the people that we hire, how we build and deliver our products, how we engage with our clients, and ultimately how we treat each other in the workplace. And therefore it's everything. It's almost our like internal North Star really. So everything all comes together behind it.

Internal North Star. Someone's going to steal that. Steal away. I would trade market. And yeah, exactly, exactly that. But then how do you sort of talking about sort of culture and then also instil those core values, which I'm sure that also the company sort of built around, how do you define and then instil those core values and then what impact do they have on the wider companies that's there? really good question.

In previous organisations that I've worked in, values have been either recommended by a strategic consultant or designed by the exec and communicated to the organisation to say, these are our values. But at Kaluza, we collectively defined them and everybody had an input when we went through that piece of work. So the way that we talk about them internally is that we want them not just to be words on a wall, but principles that drive decision making and our everyday behaviour. So once we went through that piece of work and they were defined, we created values indicators that showcased examples of hot and cold behaviour in relation to those specific values. So people had a really clear understanding of the cultural expectations that we have. So that's gone down really well. And we've built it into things like our performance reviews and how we give feedback. So for example, we're on a mission, it's one of our values and therefore if you were in my team and doing a piece of work that really directly contributed to our mission as an organisation, I can leave you a piece of feedback and tag it, like with that value, so therefore you get an understanding of how you're living and breathing that daily.

But at Kaluza, we're very, very keen on making sure that people understand that it's not just about what you deliver, it's just as much about how you deliver it and how you operate with people and how you treat others around you. So that's why it's been a collective success and we'll continue to iterate on our values as time goes on and as we evolve as an organisation. But that's how we do it currently.

So, did you say one of your values are we're on a mission? Yeah. I love that. That's such a great, I've never heard of that before. Also, it's bad, I should really know that it's being done. That's such a, yeah, it's just, you normally get these fluffy words and I think it pretty much just sums it up.

Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, I totally agree. I feel the same way about all of them, actually. So another example is we communicate with purpose. That's another one of our values. And it is exactly what it says on the tin. So, you know, if we're going to be talking to others about something specific, it needs to be purposeful. It needs to be thoughtful. It needs to be

It needs to be worded in such a way that it's well received, but also it's driving the right outcomes, right? So all of our values follow that same thread. Yeah, love that. Probably a really good next point is obviously, Kaluza has expanded globally. I'm going to say, correct me if I'm wrong, in the last couple of years, I know you had Lisbon, know Australia is pretty big for you and also the US. Obviously,I mean, let's just briefly, the US is completely different compared to the UK in many ways. And I'm sure it's been really tricky, as sort of Kaluza has expanded internationally, what strategies are you implementing to really sort of preserve the company culture and then value globally? Because yeah, that's probably also a huge, huge topic. 

And you're right that your role is very broad. all of these things is a lot, but. Just really interested to hear how you, the team and the business is doing that successfully? 

So in my view, a few things are critical. The first one is just being really clear on what your culture and values are, firstly. So if you're talking about preservation, I think setting your stall out and saying this is who we are as an organisation first off is really important. And I think we are very clear about that at Kaluza our culture and our values is something that we feel very proud of. 

So on that note, when you're expanding into new territories, hiring the right leaders who are on the ground that can build teams in line with our culture and values is really important. But I think you also need to get a little bit comfortable with adjusting slightly, dependent on the location. For example, something that's right for either people who work at Kaluza or for customers in a specific location won't always be right in another location. So our values are almost our compass to help us align on those decisions. And it's okay that certain aspects of Kaluza life are different in one place to another. So if I can use policies as one example. 

So what might be considered a very generous maternity leave offering in one country might be considered below par in another and therefore it might be that you offer different things in different countries because the bar is different, the expectations different and therefore you have to do the right thing by the population of people that you're ultimately providing a service for. So it's those types of things that we've had to make some decisions on pragmatically but we do so with all the data and then thinking about how do we make sure that this is in line with our values and the right thing to do and driving the right outcomes. So it's nuanced, I would say, and it's not an easy thing to do and it involves lots and lots of discussion always, but I think it can be done and it's a really, really exciting time to be at Kaluza or anywhere that's expanding internationally. It's a new challenge and you have to work differently and you have to think differently.

I know we mentioned right at the start in terms of hiring, like how important it is for every company to fire. No matter who you are, it's such an important thing. I think when it comes to tech impact, because it is so mission focused and you're looking for those people usually who live and breathe the values, but how do you ensure that those new hires really align with the company values and then also contribute towards the culture?

Tech4Good South West (15:30.506)

I thought of it a new hire. So we build our values into our hiring process in multiple different ways. So we assess for alignment with values at multiple stages. And it's really important that incoming people feel an affinity with them. And that discussion goes both ways, right? Like any good hiring process, it should be about, is this the right fit for you as an employee looking to work somewhere? And is this the right fit for us? Does your skill set capability and your personal set of values align with what we're offering as a business? So we go through multiple rounds of interviews. 

We also have a range of different interviewers and therefore we try and make sure that we've got a diverse range of people who are meeting new hires throughout the process and therefore it's not just...one leader's view of what the company values or the company culture looks like in a particular part of the organisation. There's a broader set of views and opinions and assessments that are done. So we're quite robust around that. And I think before people even get to the application process, we're very clear and we set our stall out on our careers site to say, here is the offering that you get at Closer. And we publish our values publicly to say, this is what this is what we expect of people at Closer and this is how we work. And I think hopefully that should filter some of the application process if people aren't aligned with that. They can just self -select out beforehand and therefore I think that really helps us in the process. that is incredibly important to us that people can align with values but also to your point contribute to culture. So diversity of thought is incredibly important. So we also look for that as well as alignment on our values throughout any hiring process.

And then what probably a tricky, tricky question to cover, but the most effective hiring practice for Kaluza and how are you, how are you attracting top talent who are really passionate about the mission and the impact that Kaluza is trying to make? And I know you've got an amazing talent team by the way, because they are incredible. So yeah, yeah, I, well, I could talk for hours about how fantastic our talent team are. They are wonderful experts in what they do. So I would say there's a huge bucket of stuff that goes underneath effective hiring processes and practices for Kaluza. So just to name a few, being inclusive, for example, is one of our values and very important to us. So we make sure that we get the basics right that invite people in rather than exclude people.

And that involves things like having open salary bans that we include on every job advert. We advertise which roles can be done on reduced hours. Like we make some of our policies public so people can determine whether or not that works for them and what does our offering work for their lifestyle and what they're looking for. But we also offer some policies from day one. So for example, if we're looking for top talent, of course top talent means that you know, we're looking for people who might be at different stages of their lives and therefore maybe, to use an example, planning a family. And there are some employers that don't offer maternity leave or family leave of any kind from day one and therefore if someone who is brilliant and passionate about tech for good is pregnant and currently with an employer, they are unlikely to move because they'll feel financially locked in to that organisation's policy and ultimately the pay and the leave that they offer.

So I think some of our policies and some of our offering and being really open about that into the wide world is a fantastic way of attracting top talent about who are passionate about tech for good. So I guess that's one bucket that I would say. That's an awesome start anyway. Thank you. Love that. Thank you. And we feel very proud of that offering.

I say that as somebody who not only works to design the policies, but also someone who's just come back from maternity leave. It's been incredibly beneficial to go through that journey myself and almost be like the customer of some of what we offer and really learn about how it works in practice. But another way that we really work hard to attract top talent, particularly in Tech for Good, is we connect into communities and networks that have similar interests in regards to sustainability and the energy transition and diversity of thought. And it's incredibly important that people care about that because it is our overall mission. But sometimes there are occasions where we might not be able to tap into external networks all the time ourselves. So we ask our existing people to take a bit of a role in it as well.

So, you know, we have a small talent team and they are very, very skilled at what they do. But if we've got a lot going on at a particular period, we've got a Kaluza referral scheme that's really popular that we use. So our employees can recommend people that they know for roles here. So if somebody is really tapped into an excellent network of people who are passionate about sustainability or tech or whatever, then they get a little financial reward for people who've been successfully hired that they might have referred. And it just helps us get that extra bit of breadth that we might not have previously had. So I could continue going on and on about some of these practices, but I broadly think that those are some of the top ones that have worked really well for us. Yeah, cool. I don't want to give away too many of your no, absolutely. Well, that's something to think about as well, for sure.

Do mind if we cover a little bit about ED &I because I think Alicia are amazing at ED &I, obviously supporting some of the hires, but knowing the people that you've got. And obviously when this goes live in September, mean, this year alone, so many initiatives have come off the market, whether it's the Tech Talent Charter, Not Girls But Code, and they've completely gone out of my head, but a couple of other initiatives have had to step down because of..

company funding and not being able to get the sponsorship they needed, which is the same. And I read some horrible stat that in 2015, 43 % of girls took IT in their GCSEs, which is a pretty good number. That's gone down to 15 % last year. The fact that we're going backwards in a world which is so surrounded by technology is really scary. But in terms of ED &I, how does that probably differ from not a tech impact company compared to a tech impact company? And then what does sort of Pallusa do to ensure that they're hiring diverse talent? And that's the whole range from gender to age, ethnicity, disabilities, the whole sort of EDNIP. Well, firstly, I think it's really important to say that I have been really disappointed by that narrative that I've been seeing in the market out there to say these initiatives are coming off the priority list for organisations.

I don't know how many times we've talked about the business case for diversity, equity and inclusion, and it feels incredibly frustrating to, you know, as a society be in this place. Now, at Colusa, we've made our commitments. We do have some goals and some internal targets in place, and we're sticking by those. So we have goals for 2024 that were defined at the beginning of the year.

We stand by them and we're continuing to invest in them and therefore that's something that really helps us measure the progress of initiatives that we are focusing on for the year. Now as we go into 2025 the environment looks a little bit different. So the past couple of years we've been going through a bit of a growth period for example and so therefore you might look at DE &I through a hiring lens slightly harder than you might from a what do we do internally to engage, support, develop, etc. 

So I think the pendulum is starting to swing the other way for us and therefore what we're starting to focus on is how do we make sure that anybody who works at Kaluza feels the opportunity to develop their career and move through different levels of seniority or technical capability so that we've got great pipelines into our leadership forums so that everybody feels represented appropriately. We're having a look at things like how we reward people for the roles that they do. making sure that we pay effectively, that it's really clear and well understood, that it's as transparent as is appropriate. And therefore, trying to have a really hard look at some of the structural barriers that might be in place for people. I'm not saying that they are currently, but it's just making sure that we're doing a review of our own homework and almost testing it and making sure that it's still fit for purpose and that it drives the right outcomes. So, you know, an initiative that we did last year and early into this year was we did do an early talent cohort with an external provider. That's gone really well. We've had some great feedback from that and we've got a new cohort of

diverse talent who are now embedded within our software engineering community, which is amazing to see, and we absolutely love it. And they've already contributed so much to our culture and our way of working. But a few months ago, we had a panel internally with our gender equality community, it's called at Calhousa, and we talked about imposter syndrome. 

One of our early talent representatives spoke on that panel and gave the perspective of somebody from an underrepresented background there. And it was fantastic. And that person did such a good job. I think it's really easy to look at this through the lens of hiring and how can you hire, but it's actually so, so important to think about how are people treated equitably and how are they made to feel included and given the opportunities to develop in the way that they want to develop at work. So I guess that's going to be a lot of our focus heading into next year in a world where we may or may not be hiring as much sort of TBC. So I think it's about looking at the whole thing holistically. Does that answer your question? Yeah, definitely. And I really wanted to speak about sort of, and you've pretty much answered it in terms of like how Kaluza and how you and the wider sort of people team support, that employee development, the wellbeing and the engagement. Because I think, yeah, so many people are constantly thinking, how do we attract the new hires? Which is great, but then sometimes they get about the existing people that are in the business and they sort of quick wins. So no, a hundred percent, there are so many, so many nuggets in there for, yeah, for people to take away.

Another question that I've got and it's about the return to work and when it comes to hybrid remote. What, I think I know but I don't want to get it wrong, but what's clearly the stance today on where people are working? As in where they're located and the hybrid working arrangement? are you fully, because I know you've got your office to see something, I don't know what the offices look like outside of Bristol and you've got your Bristol office but what's the set up in terms of are you hybrid, are you remote, are you flexible, what does that look like because just be really interested in the size that you are, what your policy is around around that today. So that's a really good question and I think this is one of those things that we talked about and set some expectations around a couple of years ago when we were just coming out of that sort of COVID timeframe where we were predominantly at home for safety reasons. 

So we've gone from being totally at home during that time like a lot of organisations have to now we are more hybrid flexible. So there is an expectation for office presence. We don't mandate anything currently. So what we suggest that leaders do is that they are to go back to our values, that we're really purposeful about the time that we spend together in an office. I personally don't think there's any point in saying you must spend X amount of days in an office if that's not coordinated and then therefore each member of your team is in the office on a different day and you don't see each other and you sit there on calls all day. You could do that at home. So I guess our approach is just making sure that the office presence is important, but let's make it purposeful and let's make sure that it's time that's well spent for collaboration and on stuff that perhaps is not impossible because nothing is, but that is more difficult from home. So lots of our tech teams, for example, their flow and their pattern that's developed over a long period of time is on a Thursday, they all come into the office. 

So our office on a Thursday in all locations is absolutely packed, but it's wonderful because everyone comes in from specific teams, travel from wherever they travel from, and everybody comes together and they sort of whiteboard ideas and everybody has lunch and we do some nice connection time and it's really thoughtful and well done. So from an approach point of view, that's how we do things currently, but I think that is part of our culture that we will have a bit of a review of and just make sure that that still works for us in the coming months.

TBC on what that looks like kind of into 2025 and beyond. I think like everybody will keep it under review. But I guess from an office presence point of view, we've got three in the UK. So Bristol, as you're aware of, so we've had a hub there forever. We've got our London office. We've got an Edinburgh office as well, which is beautiful and just been redone. So that looks fabulous at the moment. And then we've got a...

We work type office over in the States and then we've got Lisbon and then Melbourne as well. So we've got quite the array of different offices. But to your question earlier around how do you adapt your culture kind of with international expansion, Melbourne office, for example, that group of people have been very, very intentional about coming in for a specific time and a specific day and a number of days each week because they're a brand new team, many of which were seconded from the UK into a new country. And therefore, it was really important for everybody to feel a sense of coming together and forming a new team under some tight delivery timeframes and really have that support network. And therefore, what they're doing in Australia might not necessarily mirror what we do in Lisbon or London at exactly the same point in time, because that's what's right for them and that bit of the community.

That's where we are at the moment. Do you allow people to move then? So someone from Bristol, if they've got an interest to move to Australia, they could move? Not for everyone. It has to be for a specific role. So the way that we manage things from the UK is different to how we manage it in Melbourne. I think the list of people wanting to go would be very long, Alicia, if that's what we allowed.

But ultimately it's a different way of working out in Australia and therefore we have to be quite specific about the types of roles that we need out there and they're often client facing for example. So it's only an opportunity that's available in set parameters. Yeah, no that's really interesting for sure because yeah I think from what I'm seeing at the moment is this year is still

Companies trying to find their feet on what works for them or what works for the people. And yeah, in terms of hiring, I mean, we've seen so many cases. I've definitely seen so many cases of companies requesting people back into the office five days a week all of a sudden, and then all those people that live 50, 100 miles away, it's just not going to work for them. So I still think companies are really trying to sort of get their groove and yeah, find out what's going to work for them. And I do think that 2025, there's probably some, yeah, rules and white papers and good policies on what good looks like for that. So it's just interesting to hear different points of view so that, yeah, ultimately people can get some hints and tips on what works for company like you and then implement it. Yeah, implement it for their companies.

Just a couple of other questions. What's next for Kaluza? You've done so much over the past couple of years. What's next for Kaluza and is there anything next for you on the horizon? That's a big question. Our focus...

From a strategic point of view is some of our target markets and thinking about, you know, our new clients and building relationships with those clients. So that's really exciting. We've got a lot to deliver and build internally. So there's lots of focus on that as well. But from a personal point of view, there's some really exciting projects coming our way from a people team point of view. And I'm going to remain cryptic about those because they're too early stage for me to share anything about externally, but when the right time comes, then I'm sure I'd be happy to. So that probably doesn't get you the answer that you were hoping for. But it's all very, very exciting and lots to come from all of us. No, yeah, I'd say you can't give away too many of your secrets. All good.

I'm going to end with a question, but yeah, any sort of real bit of advice or that nugget of information that you'd to people in a similar role to you being head of people in a tech impact company, there's such an important role to lead on for a business. yeah, what sort of one or two bits of advice that you would give to someone? I've got two or three that spring to mind straight away. And one is, don't try and do it all at once. It's really, really easy, particularly if you're scaling or growing, that the demand from the business is, we need everything and we need it now. In terms of structure around, let's say, reward and career development and policies and and and, you know, it's massive and it's really diverse. I would say make an agreement as an organisation what things you really want to go after within that fixed time period and focus on doing those really well. If you try and do everything, you'll burn out really fast in a head of people type role. 

I guess it's not just what you're focusing on, it's also how you do it and I'm a big advocate for building people as a product. And therefore what I mean by that is an approach of test and learn is absolutely key but there are some fundamentals that go without saying like really understand the stakeholder groups that you're working with. Like do your user analysis the same way that you would if you're trying to sell something to a customer. Make sure you understand sentiment that sits behind how everybody's feeling at the moment and when stuff's going to land and you know if there are times in the business where everyone's going through like really crunchy bits of delivery for example don't try and launch everything from a people team point of view then you know like be really sensible around when are you going to get the most engagement from stuff but also when are people going to meet like feel the most value from what you're doing so there's there's a few bits there but I guess

Ultimately, it's just about going back to right what we talked about at the very beginning. It's just getting really clear on your culture, your values, your mission, and just using those as your guide on your decision making. And use your exec or your senior team as your test bed, as your counsel, as your, I guess, as your focus and just get from them what's really on their mind from a people point of view but also from an organisational point of view and how can you help them solve that. So that sounds like a lot but actually I think all three things weave into the same theme don't they? Yeah, no honestly that was absolutely perfect. You've been quite a book on this because you're saying all the good stuff.

I'm sure people listening would love to get in touch. Are you happy for people to connect with you on LinkedIn? People in a similar role or that have got any questions? Are happy for people to connect with you? Always, yeah, always. Very open to it. Love that. And then in terms of jobs at Polluter at the moment, are you hiring? And where can people find roles that you're hiring for at the moment if you are?

So everything that we're currently hiring will be on our Kaluza Careers website. So if you Google Kaluza Careers, it will come up and everything will be detailed as I've described on there. So roles that are available, locations they're available in, what those roles pay, details of what those roles entail, et cetera. So do have a look at that. We're at a point in the year where things do slow down because of summer holidays at the moment. So you might not see a lot of roles on there but what is there is really purposeful and really valuable. So do keep an eye on it because it does change.

Awesome. Yeah. I will tag it in the notes. So yeah, interesting connecting with Emily or in a role with Kaluza. mean, what everything you said, I'm yeah, I think everyone would want to work. So Kaluza, yeah, it sounds amazing. And yeah, just so grateful to have you're the first sort of head of people that we've had on the podcast. And I was really excited just to hear about, say, culture values. It's just so important. And I think there's so many amazing nuggets of information that anyone from head of people, you might be a founder of a really full company and you're kind of taking on that role and responsibilities at the moment. I'm hoping that people get one or two hints and tips and embed it in their business and yeah, have the success that you, team and that Kaluza have and I'm sure will continue to have globally over the years to come.

Emily, thank you so, so much. That was so good. I loved hearing about everything. And yeah, thanks for speaking to me on the Tech for Goods Alps podcast today. Absolutely. And yeah, we'll speak again really soon. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you.