Henry Jones, consultant for the Southwest Social Mobility Commission discusses social mobility, the South West, diversity in tech and some ideas on how to close the ever growing digital skills gap in the UK.

Read Henry’s report Tech Frontier, Shaping the Future of the Southwest Peninsula

"Work experience is one of the big things I’m looking at, specifically year 10 work experience. My report lays out eight things that we really need to do to improve the pipeline of young talent, especially those with disadvantaged backgrounds going into tech, and number one is more year 10 work experience programs within tech! When I speak about work experience programs, I don't mean just your local tech employer ringing on someone because, albeit that's good, I'm not saying that should stop. More tech employers I think should do that. But that is much more accessible to people that just have connections there, what about the others?'' Henry Jones

“Awareness and interest in tech, as well as the availability of non-technical roles, play a crucial role in addressing the digital skills gap and driving social mobility in the tech industry.”

Takeaways

• The tech industry in the Southwest faces challenges in attracting young people from under-resourced and disadvantaged backgrounds.

• Awareness and interest in tech, as well as the availability of non-technical roles, play a crucial role in addressing the digital skills gap and driving social mobility in the tech industry.

• The potential for the tech industry to drive social mobility and the need for regional initiatives to support young talent from diverse backgrounds are key themes in the conversation.

Chapters

03.20 - Challenges of Social Mobility in the Southwest Peninsula

09:52 - Research Document: Impact and Opportunities in the Tech Industry

Transcript

Tech4Good South West (00:02.894)

Welcome to the Tech for Good South West podcast brought to you by Annie, Alicia and Arielle. Tech for Good South West has relaunched and we're on a mission to build momentum for the Tech for Good movement across the South West. Our podcast focuses on conversations with charities, investors, startups and initiatives to share their stories, challenges and successes.

Hello, wonderful people. My name is Alicia and I'm the co -host of the Tech for Good Southwest podcast. Today, I'm joined by Henry Jones, who is a consultant for the Southwest Social Mobility Commission. He is also a consultant for Boston Consulting Group. I met Henry, when I say met, virtually on LinkedIn, where everyone meets nowadays, don't they? But Henry reached out to me on LinkedIn.

I think it was actually pre -Christmas and he wanted to discuss diversity in tech in the Southwest. Obviously my bread and butter and what I love talking about. And we had a conversation. I just loved the work that he was doing. So really wanted to get him on the podcast to deep dive into some of the awesome research and work that he's doing to basically look at the Southwest, but mainly focused on the Southwest peninsula. And I think we're really guilty in the Southwest. I definitely am of thinking the Southwest just being Bristol and Bath.

But there's so much more to the Southwest in terms of people that we need to support, companies that are out there, universities, you name it. It's such a bigger region than just Bristol Bath. And I definitely think Bristol gets highlighted quite a lot, but we really need to work together as more of a collective. But yeah, Henry's been doing some incredible research, which has been live now for a few weeks. I'm going to share a couple of links in the comments but please have a read at some of the research that he's put together. Thank you so much Henry. I know we've lost you to London and I know you're originally from the South West comeback but yeah really excited to dig into this. So without further ado, Henry, please introduce yourself. Thank you so much Alicia. I really appreciate that. It's amazing to be on the Tech for Good South West podcast. I really appreciate you letting me speak here.

Tech4Good South West (02:22.382)

I didn't think all those months ago when I sort of randomly sent you a message on LinkedIn, it would end up with us on a podcast together, but I'm very happy it's led to that. But anyway, lovely to meet everyone that is listening. My name is Henry. I'm a consultant for the Southwest Social Mobility Commission, but also for BCG. And essentially the work I'd be doing is looking at tech in the Southwest Peninsula because it is, I mean, I'll go into more detail, I'm sure later, but it's an incredibly vibrant industry.

But it has one vital flaw that I'm quite an optimistic person. So, you know, a flaw is often an opportunity to solve and make better, but it has one vital flaw, which is the pipeline of talent essentially. And we really need to help everyone that is interested in tech to be able to get into the industry. And especially those from poorer disadvantaged backgrounds, which is where my focus has been, but now I'm super excited to get into the chat today.

Tell us all about first of all the Southwest Social Mobility Commission because a lot of people wouldn't have heard of it. Of course. What is that? No, it's a great question. So the Southwest Social Mobility Commission was born out of a report done in 2022, so quite recent, by Dr. Amri Sim and Professor Lea Major OBE. And essentially, they wrote this report together to highlight the social mobility issues in the Southwest.

When you look at the Southwest, just from a educational achievement perspective of young people, it actually looks pretty on par and average with the rest of the country. But then when you take the split, the disadvantage split, the picture completely changes and the Southwest has some of the worst social mobility in the whole of the country. And the way that the reason why we're focused on the Southwest in terms of social mobility its because of that, because it's not very good, but also with social mobility, you can't take national level policies and assume that they will work everywhere because regions of the UK are very different.

So, you know, I'm from the Southwest. I understand the, the rurality of the Southwest. If you look at the Southwest, it's incredibly rural, which means that that is a big barrier when it comes to social mobility. If I, if I look at my childhood, I had one choice for primary school and one choice for secondary school. Let's say I was super interested in, in tech.

Tech4Good South West (04:42.926)

And let's say my local secondary school just didn't do GCSE computing. My opportunities are far less compared to someone in London who maybe has, you know, 10 choices of secondary schools to go to, eight of which do GCSE computing. Therefore they can choose the ones that are doing that, that qualification. So I think that just highlights the issue of every region is different. So therefore you need to have regional initiatives when it comes to social mobility, not just national level policies and hoping they're going to filter down correctly.

Where's this? Because this isn't your answer comment at the moment for this. So you must have a huge passion within social mobility or for good or where? But where does this come from?

Yeah, it's a great question. So I think growing up, so I went to a state school, I didn't go to a private school. I'm not saying I was very happy with my upbringing. I don't think I was dis -multi -ed in any way. What I learnt at university when I went was that everyone that went to a private school or grew up in London just knew about the world of work so much more than I did. Like, for example, I'm a consultant now. I did not know this thing existed until second year of university. And someone said, Henry, you might be good at this. You might enjoy this. And I was like, well, firstly, what is it? I don't actually know what this is. And since then, it's just hit me however hard I found it, there are people that are finding it much much tougher. So I think that's partly the thing and then when this opportunity came about to look at tech and social mobility in the southwest, I'm quite a techie guy, I like my tech, I'm very interested in social mobility but also I come from the Southwest and I do really miss it to be honest whenever I go home and sort of walk my dogs in the fields I'm like I miss this.

I want to get out of London. I want to, I want to go back home. But, so this was just the perfect opportunity for me.

I'm back home now after two and a half years in London. And don't get me wrong. I feel very privileged and lucky to have done City Life, but it definitely had, had an expiry date and I'm so happy to be back home. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. do you know what? I was actually speaking to someone. They've actually created a,

Tech4Good South West (07:04.814)

tech company or our work experience. And I didn't know this. I don't have children and work experience and my work experience was done probably 20, 20 odd years ago now. Don't drop in the mid 30. But in terms of work experience, and I didn't know this is now put on the parent for them to find work experience. And obviously when you do come from a privileged background, obviously parents, if you're parents are doctors, you're just going to be given the most unbelievable work experience because of the people that usually these type of folk know. And then equally, if you don't and come from that disadvantaged or underrepresented background, what does work experience look like to you? Is it working in a corner shop? Is that work experience? Like you said, it's the opportunities for people in these rural areas. And yes, as a Southwest born and bred girl. Yeah.

It's just something that you don't think about, but needs to be spoken about. I completely agree. Like work experience is one of the big things that I'm like specifically year 10 work experience is something that I'm specifically looking at. And my report lays out eight things that we really need to do to improve the pipeline of young talent, especially those with disadvantaged backgrounds going into tech. And literally number one is more year 10 work experience programs within tech.

When I speak about work experience programs, I don't mean just your local tech employer, bringing on someone because, albeit that's good. I'm not saying that should stop at all. You know, more tech employers, I think should do that, but that is much more accessible to people that just have connections there. And people that have connections in tech are less likely to be from disadvantaged backgrounds.

Therefore the work experience schemes that I'm recommending are what I call project -based work experience schemes, where it's an online application tool, pushed throughout schools and these are the sort of things that need to happen more because like you said most children in year 10 in that week of work experience that everyone is supposed to do most people get that through connections family connections of which means that this is going to be much worse for the disadvantaged population who have worse connections in these kind of industries so that's why i'm very much recommending a work experience scheme or work experience schemes that are specifically designed so that that isn't the case.

Tech4Good South West (09:25.454)

Yeah, completely agree. Can we talk a little bit more about this research documents? Obviously, I've seen it and I've read it and we will, yeah, we'll include it here and yeah, we'd love people to have a look at some really interesting facts and figures and as said, what Henry's discussed so far. But what's the research document really sort of outline? And what is it there for? Yeah, big question.

But one I'm very happy to try and answer. So essentially what the research is about is answering a very simple but complex question. And the question is, how can we get more young people from the Southwest Peninsula, especially those from under -resourced backgrounds or poor or disadvantaged backgrounds into tech and thriving in tech? That is the very short, simple question, but obviously not easy to solve. It's a big question, right?

Some of the things that came out of it that is super interesting is that firstly, the UK in general is a booming tech market. It's the third highest globally when it comes to valuation. And when you look at sort of investment into startups, it's taking a growing share from places like the US and China. So it's a massive industry and it's going to continue to grow. And the Southwest is a big part of that with some really super interesting tech companies. You've got companies like CineTech in Somerset who are actually responsible for the COVID vaccine invitation communication over text. So honestly, some really innovative, cool startups in the Southwest doing some really cool things. And actually, one interesting point that I found was that there are sort of two tech companies in the Southwest that generate more revenue than the entire Southwest fish industry, which I think just underscores how vital of an industry it is to the Southwest.

Can I put you on the spot and say who?

It's a good question. So the government data that I get this from, they don't actually reveal that information. They just tell me how much money they make, which is more of the industry. But it's a good point. But no, the data doesn't allow for that, unfortunately. But also this isn't going to stop, right? There's expected to be a 26 % headcount growth from 2022 to 2027 when it comes to tech jobs in the Southwest. So it's a really cool industry that is going to continue to grow. But there's a big issue, which is that not enough young people from the Southwest Peninsula,

Tech4Good South West (11:44.974)

want to go into this industry. So the Southwest in general actually has the lowest uptake in level three IT qualifications. I'm not saying that's the whole picture, but I think it's indicative of the problem that we have here. We have a really great tech industry, but not enough young people wanting to go into it. And essentially what the research does, it looks at the barriers that young people are facing to go into the industry and outlines eight things that we need to do to knock down those barriers so we can allow this industry to thrive and continue to grow, essentially.

I think one big part of the research is saying that actually this represents a really good opportunity for both the Southwest economy, because if you can help the tech companies that are growing with good talent, they're going to grow, boosting the Southwest tech economy, boosting the Southwest economy, et cetera, et cetera. But also it represents a really significant social opportunity because tech, as I'm sure you know, is often very well paid, high skilled, future proof work. If we can help people, especially those from under -resourced backgrounds get into this industry, then we can really achieve social mobility, which, like I said at the beginning, is an issue in the South West that needs to be fixed. Do you think that we need to look at education as the first point of call? So what the research does is it looks at, essentially, envisions every young person's journey into work and tech in particular, obviously, as a funnel.

Whereas, actually, the first thing that young people need to gain to eventually work and thrive in the tech industry if they want to is gaining that baseline level of digital skills. So this is something you learn in reception before you even go to school using an iPad, things like that. You've got to get that baseline level of digital skills and then it goes to the awareness and interest.

So you've got that baseline level, then you need to become aware much like I was talking about consulting that I didn't know about, you need to be aware of an industry to want to go into it in the future. If you don't know what it is, there's no hope that you will go into it. So that awareness and interest piece is super important. And then once children have become aware and interested, they then need to gain the tech skills and qualifications to allow them to go into the industry. Now there's a big thing, a big debate, I think, at the minute, which is our tech qualifications actually good.

Tech4Good South West (14:05.934)

Because a lot of employers say, tech industry moves at a million miles an hour, qualifications get updated at snail face, there's a massive disconnect. But I won't go into that right now, that's a whole other debate to be had. And then the next stage of the funnel is getting into tech employment. You've gained these tech skills and qualifications, now you want to get a tech job. And then finally, and I think this is something that people forget about, is then thriving in tech, right? Actually, you've got into a tech job, are we supporting people enough to thrive in the industry and being retained in the industry?

There's no point just getting people in and then they leave a year later, that's kind of, you know, counterintuitive. And essentially, I did a massive interview program with education, business support service leaders. And what we found was that it was the middle three parts of that funnel. So the awareness and interest, tech skills and qualifications and access to tech employment that were really missing in the Southwest. Not missing, but that was where the most impact can be had. And that's where my report focuses. Awesome. Yeah. Like you said, that retaining piece as well is something that people don't think about either.

I mean, when it comes to sort of women in tech, obviously, that's a huge passion for me. And it's usually that underrepresented group and there's crazy stats. And I think it's something like 40 % of women leave the industry by the time they're 35. And it's great. Obviously, we need to get them in first of all, but then we cannot lose them out of the industry. Yeah, completely agree. My report is less focused on that bit because that was... No, of course. It's...

It's definitely important, but from the conversations I had, it was less important from a social mobility point of view. Still important, but I think sometimes we try and do everything all at once, which is fantastic. But sometimes, in my opinion, it's better to focus on where the real issues are and really focus on them and work out how can we really solve these. And then we need to solve the other ones, of course. But if we can focus about where we can have the most value, I think that's going to be really important.

Yeah. And it is the next generation. We have to continue to think about that and get these people in. Otherwise the future is tech. There's no question about it. And without people then yeah, we don't know what, what the world's going to look like. There was a thing going around on social media this week or last week about the dream gap. And when it comes to sort of, yeah, young girls, and by the time they're seven, their dream of being an astronaut or a physicist or that is just completely squashed.

Tech4Good South West (16:31.214)

Yeah, it's just so much to talk about, but it's so much good stuff. And again, I think your work is incredible and I want everyone to read it.

It is very kind of you to say, Alicia. I've worked hard on it.

You have. Because also, one thing, and I know this data, like you said before we jumped on here, I didn't know there was 18 ,000 tech companies in the Southwest. I know you said we don't know tech, whether that's, and I say that you can't see me, but I'm doing the finger, the finger speech marks when I say tech, but they could be like engineering companies, not specifically tech, but still 18 ,000 companies in the Southwest. There's opportunity. We just need to get the people.

Yeah. And I think one good thing to mention here is that I have data and you'll see this in the report. If you read it, I have data also where the tech jobs are in the Southwest peninsula.

And I think one thing that people think about when they think about, okay, I want to go into tech, I need to go to London. That's often the first thing that people think about. That's not true. Like you said, 17 ,000 tech companies in the Southwest. So it's obviously not true that it's just in London. But then also within the Southwest Peninsula, people will then even think, well, I have to go to Exeter. I have to go to Plymouth, for example. Which yes, most of the tech jobs, about 50 % of the tech jobs are in Exeter and Plymouth in the Southwest Peninsula, but if you look at my report, there's a big map of the Southwest and bubbles representing where the tech jobs are. And there are bubbles everywhere across the peninsula. It's not like there are just two bubbles in Exeter and Plymouth and then nothing anywhere else. There are bubbles, and when I say bubbles, I mean tech jobs, but there are bubbles throughout the Southwest , obviously more concentrated in the big cities, but there are tech jobs around you. It's just young people don't see them.

Young people see someone going out to fish. They see the farmer on the land, they see their teacher and these are the jobs they see around them and therefore these are the jobs, especially for that disadvantaged population, these are the jobs in which they think, I can do that because I can see it. They don't see the person in the building working for GCHQ protecting the country from cyber attacks, which is incredibly cool, but they don't see it. So therefore they can't get interested in it as much as maybe they can when they see a local fisherman go out and get some fish.

Tech4Good South West (18:45.102)

Love that. Yeah, it's such when you put it like that, it's just so true and we need to do something about it. What change would you like to see the most Henry? And you probably answered it, but as a question, yeah, what change would you like to see?

I think for me, the biggest change I want to see is getting more young people and I'm talking, you know, starting in year seven, if not before, but getting more young people aware and interested in tech.

I see that honestly is the biggest barrier because it's one of the first stages of that funnel I'm talking about. And it's very wide, but it shrinks very quickly. And essentially what I want to do is keep that as wide as possible because tech companies in the Southwest are very small. So I get they have issues in terms of going out to schools and doing running workshops and things like that. But these are the things that need to happen to get young people aware and interested in tech because...

That, in my opinion, is where the real issues are. And I'd say three out of eight of my initiatives are focused on that. It's focused on how can we get into schools more to talk to these kids and get them interested and aware of tech. Because I guarantee you, if there was more of that happening, the pipeline of talent would be better because tech is incredibly interesting. I think you mentioned it, Alicia, when we spoke for the first time. I think you said that...

A lot of people think of tech still as geeky and nerdy and think those sort of words that are have negative connotations associated with them, right? But actually tech is super cool and young people would love it if they, if they knew what it was and knew that the opportunities were around them. And that's what we need to do more of. And like I said, the first three out of my eight initiatives are focused on doing just that. Yeah, exactly. And I was on a, I was on a panel a couple of weeks ago for International Women's Day and the topic was I work in tech and I'm not technical and 47 % of jobs in tech and non -technical. So that could be sales, marketing, account management, maybe an agile coach or delivery manager. Again, the technical roles of your data scientists, your data engineers, your software engineers. And yes, there are certain skills obviously that come with that, that you need mainly like problem solving.

Tech4Good South West (21:09.326)

But you're not locked in a basement with no windows coding all day on your own. Like that's not tech. It's not tech anymore. I think the only challenge I would have to that, I completely agree that non -technical roles in tech are important, but I would say that still the majority of tech roles are technical. And one other thing is that when you look at getting into a tech career, and you know, very happy for you to disagree with this if you do, but from my perspective and the people I've spoken to about this, the technical roles are more likely to be the entry level roles, where you have like product managers and project managers that are a bit more senior, so the sort of non -technical roles.

So if we want to try and improve the pipeline of young talent going into tech, in my opinion, we need to start focusing on the technical roles, but still obviously push those non -technical roles because tech companies couldn't survive without them. But I think in my opinion, to start off, we need to focus on those technical roles and then work on that in a parallel manner is what I would say personally. I'm not going to disagree with you. I think from doing tech recruitment for 11 years, I'd probably say 90 % of my work are technical roles and that's where the gap is. Give me a non -technical role, I'll fill it like that and find the person because there's so many skills that you can bring to the table from other industries and even if you were a mum.

There's so much that you could bring across for example. Organisational skills, bloody hell. My mum, I don't know how she managed to be honest, because I had so much stuff going on, but she still managed to do her job and do it very well. But yeah, no. Exactly. So those skills can't be taught, I think, with non -tech jobs, whereas technical, they have to be taught. So I do completely agree with you. I think we've got a huge, huge problem if we look at the funnel.

as a huge problem with those technical and that's what the real gap that we need to close. I think non -technical is just making people aware of the opportunities.

Yes, I agree. But yeah, I'm with you. I'm not going to disagree. No, I agree that we need because when people think about going, I don't know, working for Google, for example, they immediately think, my God, I need to be a coder to do that. Right. You don't. There are so many roles in Google that aren't technical. But I agree where technicals are where the real gap is.

Tech4Good South West (23:35.374)

But I agree, I think the non technical roles is more about that just awareness that they exist. 100%.

What does, as a final question, what does tech for good mean to you, Henry?

Great question. And I'm sad that this is the last question. I've really enjoyed this. But what I would say in terms of what tech for good means to me, I would say allowing everyone to be shown the same opportunities to get into tech no matter their background. And from my perspective, that's more from a social mobility angle, which is where the tech is an incredibly growing, vibrant industry and honestly leave such opportunity to help social mobility.

Actually, I think the tech industry could be one of the big unlocks to improve social mobility in this country and globally, to be honest, but we need to do something now to make sure that that opportunity is unlocked and used.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Love that. You're going to be the change we want to see. We can hope so. We can hope so. You can have like that tattooed. I haven't got a tattoo. Maybe that should be my first tattoo. I'd be a bit weird, but. But no, it's so true.

Do you know what, and I'm obviously a huge advocate for the Southwest being Southwest born and bred, if anywhere's gonna do it, it's gonna happen here because it's just a different vibe. Yeah, I think when people think of the Southwest, they think of holidays and they think of the seaside and they think of lovely beaches and stuff, which is not wrong, but they don't think of the amazing tech industry that's going on. I don't blame them to be fair, the beaches are lovely, but it's got so much more than tourism.

So, Henry, your research is out on Thursday, the 4th of April. It certainly is. Listeners, this is unlikely to be out by then, but you might have seen by the time you listen to this, you might have seen myself share something, definitely Tech4Good South West sharing, Henry sharing the research where you can download and read it. Henry, can people reach out to you if they've got any questions or for support? Yeah, of course they can. Yeah, please.

Tech4Good South West (25:57.902)

Yeah, reach out to me on LinkedIn is probably the best way to do that. Henry Jones, just search on there. You should be able to find me. In terms of the report, if you can't see it linked, I'm sure you can. But if not, just search into Google the Tech Frontier, Shaping the Future of the Southwest Peninsula is the title of the report. And it should come up on Google. But if not, just reach out to me or use the link that's provided in this podcast. But no, obviously any questions that you have about the report, very happy to answer them.

But no, thank you so much, Alicia. I've had a lovely time. I must say. Good. And also, look, you're needed back home. So, yeah, sorry, London. He's needed here. But no, thank you so much for your energy, your support. Yeah, we're really happy to support you here at Tech for Good Southwest. I am also personally, and I'm sure listeners and followers, et cetera, if this is something of interest, let's continue the conversation. Support Henry. And...

Yeah, try and close that digital skills gap when it comes to that disadvantaged social mobility, underrepresented backgrounds and be the change you want to see.